Not Saying Hello or Greeting People on Tishah b'Av

(I could've entitled this blog posting "You had me at not saying hello", although that would not be original.)
(Totally, btw, Havel Havelim #177: The Tisha B'Av Edition is out, with a link to one of my recent blogposts.)
I had started to look into the topic of not greeting people on Tishah b'Av on Sunday, but then abandoned it until I saw that Rabbi Ari Enkin wrote today on the same topic and I thought that I would add to the discussion [what I was planning on posting, pretty much, with some stuff in response to Rabbi Enkin's posting]. My main direction was going to be that the action forbidden on Tishah b'Av is שאילת שלום - inquiring into one's wellbeing and that saying "hello" should be okay, since they are different.
Why is it that on Tishah b'Av Jews are not supposed to greet people? Yes, as noted elsewhere, this custom "is rooted in the Laws of Mourning, because on Tisha B’Av we observe many of the same laws and customs that apply to a mourner." However, what I'm asking is how did this come about / why?
So before we actually get to answering this question, we first need to see what came before. We're going to start with Rabbi Yosef Karo's work, the Shulhan Arukh (או"ח תקנד:כ):

אין שאלת שלום לחבירו בת"ב, והדיוטות שאינם יודעים ונותנים שלום, משיבים להם בשפה רפה ובכובד ראש

There is no inquiry of wellbeing of one's fellow on Tishah b'Av. And simple people who know not and greet - we respond to them with a weak lip and with seriousness.

The phrase that Rabbi Karo uses here (שאלת שלום - inquiry of wellbeing) is one that goes way back, going back to Talmudic times of something that is not to be done. However, the question is what exactly constitutes this action from which people are to refrain? At face value, it would seem that inquiring of how one is doing is a problem but not simply greeting someone. At this point, it would seem that this could, as Rabbi Enkin wrote, "include the saying of 'good morning' or 'hello' in the prohibition of Sheilat Shalom, it is not entirely clear if such a greeting was intended to be included in the prohibition."
Rabbi Enkin references what Rabbi Zechariah Mendel (son of Aryeh Leib) of Cracow in the 18th century wrote (באר היטב יו"ד שפה:ב) on this topic:

אפשר לומר כיון שרוב שאילת שלום שלנו אינו אלא שאומר צפרא טבא וזה מותר שאינו שאילת שלום ממש כדאיתא בבית יוסף בא"ח סימן פ"ט והביאו בש"ע שם. ועוד מביא בב"י שם בשם ר"י פרישת שלום כמו כריעה אבל שלום בפה מותר כמו צפרא דמרי טב וכיוצא בו ע"ש. וכתב שם בד"מ דבזוהר פקודי דף ק"ג ע"א משמע דאינו אסור רק כשמזכיר השם וזה שם לענין שלא יתן שלום לחבירו קודם שיתפלל וש"מ שכל זה שאנו נוהגין אינו בכלל שאילת שלום כנ"ל

It is possible to say that since most of our inquiry of wellbeing is simply just saying "Good morning" and this is permissible that it is not really inquiry of wellbeing, as Rabbi Yosef Karo wrote in his Beit Yosef (OH §89) and he wrote this there in his Shulhan Arukh. And furthermore, he mentioned there in his Beit Yosef in the name of Rabbenu Yeruham that extending a greeting is like bowing, but saying hello is permissible, like "Good morning, sir" and other similar things - see there. And Rabbi Moshe Isserles wrote in his Darkhei Moshe that in the Zohar it is inferable that it is only forbidden when one mentions God's name (Pekudei pg. 103a). And this there is referring to the topic of not saying hello to one's fellow before praying. And infer from this that all of this that we are accustomed is not in the category of inquiry of wellbeing, as it seems to me.

An excellent summary of Rabbi Zechariah Mendel's words by Rabbi Enkin is that "[o]ffering another Jew a 'Shalom Aleichem' is more of a religious act than a greeting. Common expressions of 'hello', 'good morning', and the like, are simply not in the same league as is 'Shalom Aleichem' in neither depth, structure, nor status." While this is very logical and sounds nice, there are other positions in Jewish thought through the ages.
Rabbi Eliyahu Shapira wrote (אליה רבה סימן תקנד) in the century prior to Rabbi Mendel, starting off quoting[/paraphrasing a little of] what Rabbi Avraham Gombiner wrote:

כתב ביו"ד סי' שפ"ה יש אומרים דזה מה שאנו נותנין שלום לא מיקרי שאלת שלום שבימיהם, וצ"ע הא בטור כתב שלום עליכם וגם בגמרא אמרינן שלום עליך רבי, ולכן אין להקל (מג"א ס"ק כא). ולענ"ד כוונת רמ"א על צפרא דמריה טב דנהיגין האידנא, דלא מיקרי שאלת שלום וכמ"ש לעיל סי' פ"ט [ס"ב]. גם נ"ל דבט' באב הכל אסור, דלא עדיף מאבל תוך ל' דהכל אסור.

"Rabbi Moshe Isserles wrote 'There are those who say that when we give greetings to each other it is not called 'inquiry of wellbeing' that was in Talmudic times' and there needs to be further looking into the matter." Behold, in the Tur, [Rabbi Ya'akov, son of Asher] wrote "peace be upon you". And also in the Talmud, it says "Peace be upon you, Rebbe". Therefore, one should not be lenient." But in my humble opinion, Rabbi Isserles' intention was about saying "Good morning, sir" which we do nowadays, which is not called inquiry into wellbeing and as is written above in Shulhan Arukh, §89. It also seems to me that on Tishah b'Av, everything is forbidden, since it is not better than a mourner who is within the first month of their mourning, that everything is forbidden.

Furthermore, Rabbi Yechiel Michel Epstein wrote (ערוך השולחן או"ח תקנד:יח) a little over a century ago:

שאילת שלום אסור בט"ב דאינו יום של שלום כמו באבל כמ"ש ביו"ד סי' שפ"ה ושם י"א דשאילת שלום שלנו לא מקרי שאילת שלום אבל מהירושלמי שהביא הטור שם משמע להדיא דאמירת שלום עליכם הוה שאילת שלום ולכן אין להקל [מג"א סקכ"א] והדיוטות שאינם יודעים הדין ונותנים שלום מחזירים להם בשפה רפה ובכובד ראש אבל שלא להשיבו כלל אין נכון כדי שלא יתבייש וכן אין לילך ולטייל בט"ב בשוק וברחוב דהטיול בעצמו אסור בט"ב ... וכן לומר בט"ב צפרא דמרי טב ובלשונינו גו"ט מארגי"ן אין לומר בת"ב

Inquiry into wellbeing is forbidden on Tishah b'Av, since it is not a day of wellbeing, like a mourner (as is written in YD §385). And there, there are those who say that our inquiry of wellbeing is not called inquiry of wellbeing, but from what Rabbi Ya'akov ben Asher wrote in the Tur, quoting the Yerushalmi, it is explicitly inferable that saying "peace be upon you" is inquiry of wellbeing. And therefore, one should not be lenient. And common people who do not know this rule and greet you, we return to them with a weak lip and with seriousness, but it is not proper to not respond at all, in order to not embarrass them. And thus, one should not walk and wander about in the marketplace or in the public square on Tishah b'Av, since just walking about on Tishah b'Av is forbidden. ... And thus, one should not say "Good morning, sir" (or "Good morning" in Yiddish) on Tishah b'Av.

In any event, I'd like to agree with what Rabbi Enkin suggests that

it seems quite reasonable that using God's name when in mourning may be inappropriate, saying "hello" should be no worse than any of the other mundane conversation which take place on Tisha B'av, or in a house or mourning, for that matter. When one picks up the telephone the first word is always a "hello" which is not truly a greeting at all, but rather an expression of readiness to engage in conversation. There is no prohibition on conversation on Tisha B'av or in a house of mourning.

Rabbi Enkin concludes by suggesting that although there are those who may follow the opinions that are not so okay with greeting (such as we saw with Rabbi Shapira and Rabbi Epstein) that "it cannot be suggested that a simple social acknowledgment is in violation of halacha. Those who feel that it is rude or uncomfortable to pass others without an acknowledgment of some sort should feel free to offer a somber 'hello' without reservation."

According Oneself on Tisha b'Av with One's Spouse

This Sunday will be Tishah b'Av. Tisha b'Av shares some similarities with Yom Kippur in that they are both fast days that begin at nighttime and a number of other prohibitions include not applying creams or oils, no wearing of shoes with leather in them, and no sexual relations. As this is my first ever Tishah b'Av being married, I figured I would look into the details of this last prohibition - what are the parameters?
Well, the sages of the Talmud provide no further details beyond abstaining from sexual relations. However, in the thirteenth century, Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel wrote (בהגהותיו דמועד קטן):

בפרק קמא דכתובות גבי הוא ישן בין האנשים והיא ישינה בין הנשים - פירוש: דתשעה באב ויום הכפורים אסור לישן עם אשתו במטה

In the first chapter of Ketubot regarding "he is to sleep amongst men and she is to sleep amongst women" - the explanation is that one is forbidden to sleep with his wife in bed on Tishah b'Av and on Yom Kippur.

What's interesting about Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel's statement is that this is actually a creative read of the following two beraisas (the first one is on Ketubot 3b-4a and the second is on 4a):

הרי שהיה פתו אפוי וטבחו טבוח ויינו מזוג ומת אביו של חתן או אמה של כלה - מכניסין את המת לחדר ואת החתן ואת הכלה לחופה ובועל בעילת מצוה ופורש ונוהג שבעת ימי המשתה. ואחר כך, נוהג שבעת ימי אבילות, וכל אותן הימים - הוא ישן בין האנשים והיא ישנה בין הנשים, ואין מונעין תכשיטין מן הכלה כל שלשים יום

Behold: if the bread is baked [for the wedding reception], the animals have been killed for meat, and the wine is properly mixed and then the father of the groom or the mother of the bride dies - we bring the corpse into a room and the bride and the groom into the huppah, they have sexual intercourse, separate from each other, and have seven days of celebration. Afterwards, then they enter into shivah, and all of those days he sleeps amongst men and she sleeps amongst women and we do not hold the bride back from ornaments any of the first thirty days.

הרי שהיה פתו אפויה וטבחו טבוח ויינו מזוג ונתן מים על גבי בשר ומת אביו של חתן או אמה של כלה מכניסין את המת לחדר ואת החתן ואת הכלה לחופה ובועל בעילת מצוה ופורש ונוהג שבעת ימי המשתה ואח"כ נוהג שבעת ימי אבילות וכל אותן הימים הוא ישן בין האנשים ואשתו ישנה בין הנשים וכן מי שפירסה אשתו נדה הוא ישן בין האנשים והיא ישנה בין הנשים ואין מונעין תכשיטין מן הכלה כל ל' יום בין כך ובין כך לא יבעול לא בערב שבת ולא במוצ"ש

Behold: if the bread is baked [for the wedding reception], the animals have been killed for meat, and the wine is properly mixed, and they had placed water on the meat and then the father of the groom or the mother of the bride dies - we bring the corpse into a room and the bride and the groom into the huppah, they have sexual intercourse, separate from each other, and have seven days of celebration. Afterwards, then they enter into shivah, and all of those days he sleeps amongst men and she sleeps amongst women. And similarly, one whose wife breaks into nidah - he sleeps amongst men and she sleeps amongst women, and we do not hold back ornaments from the bride all 30 days. In either instance, they should not have sexual intercourse either just prior or just following shabbat.

After these are quoted, the following is then mentioned (same page):

אמר רבי יוחנן אע"פ שאמרו אין אבילות במועד אבל דברים של צינעא נוהג

Rabbi Yohanan said, "Even though the [sages] said 'there is no mourning on a holiday', nevertheless, private matters are accorded."

Having seen the Talmudic pieces related to what Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel is referencing, we see the creative read he takes: he connects these teachings regarding mourning of a groom's father or a bride's mother their intended wedding to the mourning-like practices on Yom Kippur and Tishah b'Av.
A few centuries later, Rabbi Moshe Isserles wrote (דרכי משה תקנ"ד:ז):

ומהר"א כתב בהגהותיו דאנו נוהגין בו איסור ושמש בית הכנסת מכריז דברים שבצנעה נוהג. וכך הכי במנהגים ובאגודה. ובהגהות מרדכי דמ"ק הלכות ט"ב דט"ב ויוה"כ אסור לישן עם אשתו במטה. ועיין לקמן סימן תרי"ד דאסור ליגע באשתו ביוה"כ כאילו היתה נדה. ואפשר דהוא הדין בט"ב

Rabbi [? (if someone knows who this is, please let me know - DK)] wrote, in his notes, that "we are accustomed prohibition on it and the gabbai of the synagogue announces private things of which we are accustomed." And such is this in [Rabbi Yitzchak Tyrnau's work,] Minhagim and in [Rabbi Alexander Susslein's work,] Agudah. And Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel wrote "It is forbidden to sleep in bed with one's wife on Tishah b'Av and on Yom Kippur" (Hagahot Mordekhai, Moed Katan, Hilkhot Tishah b'Av). And see further in [Tur,] section 614 that it is forbidden to touch one's wife on Yom Kippur as if she was in nidah. And it is possible that this is the case on Tishah b'Av.

Rabbi Isserles takes the core of Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel's creative reading (albeit without the interpretive part regarding the Talmudic quote) and suggests that it might be like that of Yom Kippur in the sense of not touching one's wife.
In the Shulhan Arukh, Rabbi Yosef Karo wrote (שו"ע או"ח תקנד:יח):

יש מי שאומר שלא יישן בליל ט"ב עם אשתו במטה, ונכון הדבר משום לך לך אמרינן נזירא

There is someone who says one should not sleep with one's wife on the night of Tishah b'Av. And this thing is proper on account of saying to a nazir stay far away [from a vineyard].

Rabbi Karo seems to kind of accept Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel's suggestion, in addition to adding onto it a statement that originated with Ulla (פסחים מ עמוד שני) regarding vinegar and Passover:

אחד זה ואחד זה אסור, משום לך לך אמרינן נזירא, סחור סחור, לכרמא לא תקרב.

Anyways, Rabbi Avraham Gombiner wrote, regarding what Rabbi Karo wrote

ואפשר שלא יגע בה כמו בי"הכ (ד"מ) ונ"ל דביום יש להקל עבי"ד סימן שמ"ב

It is possible that he should not touch her, just like on Yom Kippur. But, it seems to me, there is to be lenient during daytime.

Rabbi Gombiner starts off quoting Rabbi Isserles regarding not touching, but then suggests that one can touch during the day. After that, Rabbi Gombiner then refers the reader to check out section 342 of Yoreh Deah in the Shulhan Arukh, where Rabbi Karo discusses the laws regarding a bride whose mother has died or a groom whose father had died (like the Talmudic citations from above).
Rabbi David HaLevi Segal (about whom I had posted previously) wrote (ט"ז אורח חיים תרטו:א):

בסי' תקנ"ד דגבי ט"ב לא זכר איסור הנגיעה רק איסור שינה עמה במטה ובאמת שוין הם כמ"ש ב"י בשם הגמ"ר לענין שינה במטה כאן רק שבס' אגודה הביא איסו' נגיע' בי"כ ולא זכר ט"ב ותו נראה לדקדק כאן בש"ע דכתב וכן אסור לישן כו' דהוא מיותר לגמרי דהא אשת חבירו שאסור לישן במטה א' ומותר בנגיעה וא"כ כיון שכ' תחלה איסור נגיעה פשיטא שאסור במטה א' ולענ"ד לחלק דבט"ב לא אסור בש"ע הנגיעה כי באותו יום הולכת בבגדים בזוים ולא יתאו' לה כ"כ משא"כ בי"כ הולכת בבגדים נקיים ובי"כ יש ג"כ לחלק דבלילה יש לאסור אפי' הנגיעה דתשמיש רגיל בלילה אבל ביום אין איסור כ"א בשינה במטה א' אבל לא בנגיע' בפרט שיש אימת היום עליו כמ"ש ס"ס תרי"ב משא"כ בשינה שאז אין עליו אימה יש ליזהר אפי' ביום במטה א' וע"כ כ' כאן תחלה איסור נגיעה שהיא דוקא בלילה וכ"ה באגודה ליל י"כ אסור ליגע כו' משמע אבל ביום א"צ ליזהר ואח"כ כ' הש"ע איסור שינה במטה שהוא אפילו ביום כנ"ל דעת הש"ע והוא נכון

In section 554 regarding Tishah b’Av, [Rabbi Yosef Karo] does not mention a prohibition of touching, just of sleeping in [the same] bed with one’s wife. But they are really the same, as he wrote in Beit Yosef in the name of the Hagahot Mordekhai regarding sleeping in a bed here [in section 615]. But in Sefer Agudah, [Rabbi Susslein] mentions the prohibition of touching on Yom Kippur, but does not mention Tishah b’Av. Furthermore, it seems here that one should read closely in the Shulhan Arukh that [Rabbi Karo] wrote “and similarly, it is forbidden to sleep with one’s wife in [the same] bed…” that [touching] is totally permitted, since one is prohibited to sleep in the same bed with someone else’s wife, but one is allowed to touch her. And, if so, since he wrote at the beginning about the prohibition of touching, it is evident that it is forbidden to sleep in the same bed. But, in my humble opinion, one should differentiate this instance from Tishah b’Av, where touching is not forbidden in the Shulhan Arukh, because on that day, one’s wife wears ignominious clothes and one doesn’t really desire his wife all that much, versus Yom Kippur, when she wears clean clothes. And, on Yom Kippur, we can also differentiate regarding nighttime, that there is to forbid even touching, since one is used to having sexual relations at nighttime. But, during the day, the only prohibition is sleeping in the same bed, but not touching specifically, since the awe of the day is upon him, as it is written in the end of section 612. But sleeping is different because then there is no awe upon him, then there is to be careful, even during the day upon the same bed. And therefore, [Rabbi Karo] wrote here at the beginning of the prohibition of touching, since that is specifically at night. And, so, too, is this in Sefer Agudah – it is forbidden to touch the night of Yom Kippur… implying that one need not be careful during the day. After that, Rabbi Karo wrote of the prohibition of sleeping in the same bed [on Yom Kippur], which is even during the day, as is mentioned above the opinion of Rabbi Karo and this is correct.

Rabbi Segal's distinction between Tishah b'Av and Yom Kippur is certainly interesting. Anyways, on how we are accustomed, Rabbi Yechiel Michel Epstein wrote that married folks are accustomed to sleep in separate beds on Tishah b'Av (ערוך השלחן או"ח תקנד:יז), as Rabbi Mordechai ben Hillel had written.